New World Order

May 5, 2010

Novus Ordo Seclorum

Here is one possible source for the ideological mantra so scorned by conspiracy theorists, the Talmud:

“A person must draw strength from the understanding of the purpose of creation, rejoicing in advance in the inevitable reformation of the entire world and the arrival of peace for humanity.”

Talmud, Truma

Sounds like a New World Order to me; a better world to come.

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18 Responses to “New World Order”

  1. dafna said

    dear exuvia,

    nice to see you writing again (i’m going to enjoy reading your work).

    i’m a bit unclear, are you saying this quote is fodder for conspiracy theorists?

  2. exuvia said

    I’m very happy to share.

    Time has set her eye on me and I have to wring out pockets of space to sit and think and write.

    I would write more often but now that I have the energy I don’t have the time.

    I’m so glad to have been given time when i didn’t have the energy.
    One day they will come together; time and energy.

    As to the quote it seemed more like food for those who harbor the ideal of a Novus Ordo Seclorum; whoever they are. I’m sure there is a few around. All paradigms have their followers.

  3. dafna said

    @”Sounds like a New World Order to me”

    to you exuvia?
    truma = 1/10 or “tithe”
    let’s assume you know what a Talmud is…

    i do not know where you got this quote from, but it was most likely a translation from hebrew – i am not sure why you (or anyone) would leap to latin “new world order” in a negative sense, unless they had no context for the quote.

    in judaism the idea of an afterlife is nearly non-existent, most likely the sentence “the inevitable reformation of the entire world and the arrival of peace for humanity” is referring to “Olam Ha-Ba” which translates to “the world to come”.

    a world of peace to be cerated here on earth, not in any after-life. (although some jews may choose to believe in an after-life) the intended focus is creating the “world to come”.

    it gets a bit tricky after that, you must be careful what you pluck from the internet – then comes the idea of “moshiach” which is entirely different that the idea of “savior”.

    basically, you have compared the idea of “Utopia” to some sort of Fascist New World Order?

    is that what you intended?

  4. exuvia said

    Hi dafna,

    I intended to provoke thinking and comments around the much published idea of a New World Order.

    It is a subject matter in vogue.

    When I saw the above quote in:
    Attaining the worlds beyond: a guide to spiritual discovery By Michael Laitman, Benzion Giertz p. 446
    It awoke an association in my mind and I posted to listen to comments like yours. Illustrated and by no means negative.

    You sure did take my thought up for serious analysis. Thank you.

    But yes, an ” inevitable reformation of the entire world” does sound, to me, like a change of the order of the world. If it be a fascist change of order or a change to a more Utopian state of life? And who is to bring about the change? I am at a total loss to know.

    Talmud is an almost unknown territory to me; but I am generally interested in religious scripture. Is there a better source on the Internet for Talmud to quote from than others?

    You seem to be well informed about Talmud. I know you are Jewish; you mentioned it in one of your comments.
    Wish I could speak Hebrew. It would open a great many texts to my curious perusal.

    Truma is tithe. I’ll keep that in mind.

    And, last but not least, yes! Internet is NOT Truth.

    PS I am glad you decided to share the Jewish perspective on a possible after life. Is there no consensus amongst Jews about the matter?

    Did I understand you right,“Olam Ha-Ba” or “the world to come” is to happen in the very world in which we now live?

    Did I really compare the idea of “Utopia” to some sort of Fascist New World Order? You sure give me some credit.

    “…the idea of “moshiach” which is entirely different that the idea of “savior”.” I can’t wait to hear more. Do please comment further.

    Great to have your thoughts

  5. dafna said

    i am no rabbi!

    if you look @ solidgoldcreativity blog and richard manchester’s thecriticaline blog, i expand a bit on my mish-mash views concerning religion.

    “Is there no consensus amongst Jews about the matter?” no consensus – most believe there is no after-life. however, as population shifts, if the more “literal” are reproducing, well then a literal after-life will become the views of the many.

    “Did I understand you right,“Olam Ha-Ba” or “the world to come” is to happen in the very world in which we now live?” – Bingo

    humans are to create “it” a world of peace and harmony for ALL.

    i just googled Laitman, consider your source… the guy is a believer in Kabbalah. i am a reformed jew who adds science and philosphy to the mix. i can’t even begin to explain the concept of Kabbalah – let’s just say you could compare him to a devout catholic who believes the eucharist is really the body and blood of christ.

  6. exuvia said

    “a devout catholic who believes the eucharist is really the body and blood of christ.”

    Sounds like a good source if you were looking for a radical view.

    I’ll look to the websites you mention to see how they-you treat the subject there.

    I like your mix; balanced and well informed.

    “humans are to create “it” a world of peace and harmony for ALL.” Are they talking about every race, together, in freedom and fraternity and creating, IT, on equal terms?

    Who came up with such a wonderful ideal for our world? Do you know?

  7. dafna said

    for ALL, you do not need to be jewish to create IT, or be part of IT.

    it never occurred to me that this idea was unique to judaism. i will try my best to answer your questions, but history is not my best subject nor is comparative religions.

    try this site http://www.bahai.org/

    the Bahai have a beautiful belief system. i have no idea if they pre-date judaism.

  8. dafna said

    Exuvia are u out there?

    although this is not FB i felt compelled to post that grocery shopping today was an entirely traumatic experience due to this PBS documentary Food, Inc.

    the only grass fed meat to be found was from Australia! WTH, we can afford to fly it here but we can’t afford to farm in this way?

    and sadly, a woman told me that the local Amish farm is cruel to their chickens.

    did i mention i am a lousy cook? soon my son and i will be living on OJ and Oatmeal (without milk) if i can’t determine the treatment of the cow…. this sucks.

    BTW, what is taking up your time?

  9. exuvia said

    Caesar must have his dues; the devil his pound of flesh and, why not, his pint of blood. That would be my poetic description of Karma; the fair debt to the world.

    Time is of the essence and it is taken up in a steady drain by family, work, study and friends. my extrovert commitments; emphasis on mine, leave a natural limit to writing.

    Still I find a moment here and there.

    Please do not forget to expound on:
    “…the idea of “moshiach” which is entirely different that the idea of “savior”.”

    I am all ears.

  10. dafna said

    “that would be my poetic description of Karma”, you certainly do tend toward poetry rather than prose. it’s enjoyable, you clearly enjoy it.

    it is nice to be invited to talk about on “ology” or “ism”, i get tired of people always assuming the conversation will be divisive. especially on blogs, when one can so easily delete a comment or simply not respond if it does become “divisive”.

    a little psyche 101… it almost seems to me that the real message is “don’t share your politics or religious or etc. views with me (the host) because if you do i may not like you afterwards”.

    i will get back to you about moshiach, meanwhile care to share your “ism”?

  11. exuvia said

    Ism or islet… I don’t have an island of faith amongst the world religions. I like to study them but I’m a bit of a tourist; seightseeing and buying postcards.

    I am very pleased to talk about the big issues, as we decide to define them out of personal interest. Persona before dogma.

    So, I don’t have a batting mound for any kind of Truth. All I can share is me.

  12. exuvia said

    Poetic prose. Yes.

    It’s so colorful and accomodating.

  13. dafna said

    “Persona before dogma” that would make us both the exceptions to whatever “rule” says conversation about islets is divisive 🙂

    so i detect some spiritualism, because of your lamenting the passing of humanity (a feeling i do not share) and your comment about Life being more than “Form” as in an interesting configuration of matter.

    as a tourist what do you make of the Ba hai? thanks for sharing.

  14. exuvia said

    On a personal level I prefer the Ocean to the islet.

    Bahá’í:
    From a postcard it looks eclectic; a summary and meeting place of much wisdom, present and past. One of the newer religions, up and coming.

    In part they submit their roots to Abraham and Moses and concern themselves with the spiritual freedom, fraternity and equality of all mankind.

    With a liberal vision of a better order in the world; one of Universal unity, who knows, Bahá’í might even have looked to Talmud, to “the inevitable reformation of the entire world and the arrival of peace for humanity.”

    Their Universal House of Justice suggests a Mosaic connection; an emphasis on Law; Universal Law. A Law to which the world should conform or suffer reformation.

    World reformation, for better or worse, turns the Eye towards the world; it happens; time and time again.

    For a deeper understanding of Bahá’í tenets they deserve a knowledgeable person to expound. I have not dwelt on their teachings long enough. A little tourism though is always interesting.

    Thanks for taking me along.

  15. Richard said

    It would be nice to think that the New World Order might be attained through democracy. Unfortunately, democracy appears to be an unattainable ideal, not least because opinions will always vary from person to person.

    A ruler seeks either a general consensus or to impose the will of an elite. Both usually turn out to be wrong but the latter can be disastrously so. The current crisis in Europe is a case in point. A ruler, alas, is surrounded by potential usurpers, most of whom seek to impose their own will.

    Written constitutions lead only to a ruling elite.

    If I am right, a New World Order, will never be achieved, unless there is such a thing as divine intervention. Dafna tells me she does not believe there is a personal god.

  16. exuvia said

    Thank you Richard, for bringing me back to this post. It really became interesting from the comments Dafna posted here. Very stimulating, opening perspective, corrective and instructive… a privilege.

    A personal God… as in a God with a mask. [Persona: Mask]

    A mask hides the true face. Anyone wearing a mask must have a wish, interest, need or obligation to hide. Would God hide from man and become personal?

    What motive does S(he) have? What is won, what is lost? What if God was not personal, if S(he) did not hide but was hidden by a blind mans creative urge; by a mask placed by a blind mans need to see. Thus arose the idol.

    • Richard said

      There is a fourteenth century mystical Christian work by an unknown author called “The Cloud of Unknowing”, God, he says, is masked by this cloud, which can be penetrated only by love and only after all experience is lost in the “Cloud of Forgetting”.

  17. exuvia said

    “after all experience is lost” : the mask undone…

    How then lessen our thirst for experience and clinging to circumference? We seem a house divided, unwilling to unmask yet weeping in secret behind the mask. What is this weeping. Is it I, weary of clay…

    Would Eros but kindly wound me I should soon forget weariness and rest my head against a wall of breathing dust.

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